Full transcript and video of POLITICO interview with President Donald Trump conducted at the White House on Dec. 8.
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Transcript
Dasha Burns: Mr. President, thank you so much for joining the conversation.
President Trump: Thank you.
Burns: So POLITICO has named you as the most influential person shaping Europe as part of our annual POLITICO 28 list. Past names that have topped the list include President Zelenskyy, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, and President Viktor Orbán. This year, POLITICO broke precedent to recognize an American for the first time in the decades-long history of P28. And sir, there is no question that you are having a seismic impact on the continent and its politics.
One of the most pressing issues in Europe right now is the war between Russia and Ukraine. Your team has been going back and forth …
Trump: I wouldn’t say one. I would say …
Burns: The …
Trump: … the most.
Burns: The most. You’re right. Um, your team has been going back and forth between Putin and Zelenskyy with various drafts of his peace deal. Which country right now is in the stronger negotiating position?
Trump: Well, there can be no question about it. It’s Russia. It’s a much bigger country. It’s a war that should’ve never happened. Frankly, it wouldn’t have happened if I were president, and it didn’t happen for four years. Uh, I watched that taking place, and I said, wow, they’re gonna cause some problems here. And it started and it, uh, could’ve evolved into, uh, World War III, frankly. I think it’s probably not gonna be happening now. I think if I weren’t president, you could’ve had World War III. I think you would’ve had a much bigger problem than you have right now, but right now it’s a big problem. It’s a big problem for Europe. And they’re not handling it well.
Burns: The, uh … last night you said that you weren’t sure if President Zelenskyy was fine with the most recent proposal, that he isn’t ready. I … I was hearing from your advisers around Thanksgiving that they thought this thing might be wrapped up by the end of the holiday, but it’s still not done. Is Zelenskyy responsible for the stalled progress, or what’s going on there?
Trump: Well, he’s gotta read the proposal. He hadn’t re … really, he hasn’t read it yet.
Burns: The most recent draft.
Trump: That’s as of yesterday. Maybe he’s read it over the night. It would be nice if he would read it. You know, a lot of people are dying. So it would be really good if he’d read it. His people loved the proposal. They really liked it. His lieutenants, his top people, they liked it, but they said he hasn’t read it yet. I think he should find time to read it.
Burns: Is it time for Ukraine to hold an election, do you think?
Trump: Yeah. I think so. It’s been a long time. It’s, uh … hasn’t been doing particularly well. Yeah, I think it’s time. I think it’s an important time to hold an election. They’re using war not to hold an election, but, uh, I would think the Ukrainian people would … should have that choice. And maybe Zelenskyy would win. I don’t know who would win. But they haven’t had an election in a long time. You know, they talk about a democracy, but it gets to a point where it’s not a democracy anymore.
Burns: On Sunday, your son, Donald Trump Jr., responded to a reporter’s question about whether you will walk away from Ukraine, and your son said, I think he may. Is that correct?
Trump: No, it’s not correct. But it’s not exactly wrong. We have to … you know, they have to play ball. If they, uh … if they don’t read agreements, potential agreements, you know, it’s, uh, not easy with Russia ’cause Russia has the upper … upper hand. And they always did. They’re much bigger. They’re much stronger in that sense. I give Ukraine a lot of … a lot of … I give the people of Ukraine and the military of Ukraine tremendous credit for the, you know, bravery and for the fighting and all of that. But you know, at some point, size will win, generally. And this is a massive size, uh … you … when you take a look at the numbers, I mean, the numbers are just crazy.
This is not a war that should’ve happened. This is a war that would’ve never happened if I were president. So sad millions of people are dead, many, many soldiers. You know, last month they lost 27,000 soldiers and some people from missiles being launched into Kyiv and o … Kyiv and other places. But, uh, what a … what a s … what a sad thing for humanity.
You know, this doesn’t affect us. Uh, the … our country is no longer paying any money ever since Biden gave them $350 billion so stupidly. And you know, if he wouldn’t have given it, maybe something else would’ve happened.
Burns: But you, sir …
President Trump: But Putin has … had no respect for Biden, and he had no respect for Zelenskyy, didn’t like Zelenskyy. They really hate each other. And part of the problem is they hate each other really a lot, you know. And it’s very hard for them to try and make a deal. It’s harder than most. I … I settled eight wars, and this … I would’ve said this is the ninth. This would’ve been the easiest one, I would’ve said, or one of the easier ones. I mean, I settled one … one that was going on for 36 years. Uh, I settled Pakistan and India. I settled so many wars. I’m very proud of it. And I do it pretty routinely, pretty easily. It’s not hard for me to do. It’s what I do. I make deals. Uh, this one is tough. One of the reasons is the level of hatred between Putin and Zelenskyy is tremendous.
Burns: And you’re right, you’re not spending money, but you, sir, are spending your time and your energy …
Trump: I am. I want to …
Burns: … on this.
Trump: I want to stop saving … you know, I want to stop seeing people killed.
Burns: If … if this deal … if Zelenskyy rejects this deal …
Trump: Yeah.
Burns: … is there a … a … a timeline, is there a point, at which you say OK?
Trump: Well, he’s gonna have to get on the ball and start, uh, accepting things. You know, when you’re losing, ’cause he’s losing …
Burns: Do Ukraine has … do you think Ukraine has lost this war?
Trump: Well, they’ve lost territory long before I got here. They lost a whole strip of seafront, big seafront. Uh, I mean, you look at the maps. I … I’ve been here for 10 months. Uh, but you go back 10 months and take a look, they lost that whole strip. It’s now a bigger strip. It’s a wider strip. But they lost a lot of land, and it’s very good land, too, that they lost.
Burns: I want …
Trump: You certainly wouldn’t say it’s a victory. I could show you a chart. It’s uh … it’s a lot of land they lost.
Burns: It’s a lot of land. Uh, I think the … the …
Trump: You know, think of it, if our election wasn’t rigged … there was a rigged election. Now everyone knows it. It’s gonna come out over the next couple of months, too, loud and clear ’cause we have all the information and everything. But if the election wasn’t rigged in Stalin, uh, you wouldn’t even be talking about Ukraine right now.
Burns: The resounding consensus in Europe right now is that they want to keep supporting Ukraine until they can win this war.
Trump: Until they drop, yeah.
Burns: Is … is that …
Trump: Well, then they should support it.
Burns: … realistic in your view?
Trump: I mean, look, then they should support it. Uh, Europe is … I’m friendly with all of ’em. I mean, I like all of them. I have no real enemy. I’ve had a couple that I didn’t like over the years. I actually like the current crew. I like ’em a lot. But they … and I know ’em very well. I know ’em really well. Um, some are friends. Some are OK. I know the good leaders. I know the bad leaders. I know the smart ones. I know the stupid ones. You get some real stupid ones, too. But, uh, they’re not doing a good job. Europe is not doing a good job in many ways. They’re not doing a good job.
Burns: Yeah, I want to ask you …
Trump: They talk too much.
Burns: … about that.
Trump: And they’re not producing. We’re talking about Ukraine. They talk but they don’t produce. And the war just keeps going on and on. I mean, four years now it’s been going on, long before I got here. This is not my war. This is Joe Biden’s war. And … in terms of America. It’s a very sad thing. And the only reason I really care about it is because I hate to see young, beautiful people being killed. That’s largely why I got involved. I mean, if you look at the Congo and Rwanda, that’s been going on. Fourteen million people, at least, killed. Nobody has any idea how many killed. Machetes … a lot of machete killings. Uh, vicious. But if you look at the uh, wars … and some of the wars that I … really were … were going to be millions and millions of people. The prime minister of Pakistan said I saved millions of people by getting involved with the … you know, stopping India and Pakistan from fighting.
Burns: I do want to go back to Europe for a moment, though, because you said they’re not doing a lot of things right in your view. And … and just last …
Trump: Well, they … they can’t be doing too right because look what’s happened.
Burns: Well, you … your administration just released a new national security strategy that sent shockwaves throughout Europe. The strategy says a key pillar of American foreign policy should be “cultivating resistance to Europe’s current trajectory within European nations.” How much should European leaders prepare for your administration to … to push to reshape the continent’s politics?
Trump: Well, Europe is a different place.
Burns: What do you mean by that?
Trump: And if it keeps going the way it’s going, Europe will not be … in my opinion, uh, many of those countries will not be viable countries any longer. Their immigration policy is a disaster. What they’re doing with immigration is a disaster. Uh, we had a disaster coming, but I was able to stop it. You know, we have no people coming through our borders now, zero, seven months. I mean, who would believe zero? We went from millions of people — in some cases, millions of people a month — but millions of people to no people.
Burns: That’s not what Europe looks like.
Trump: The opposite. Yeah. Uh … uh, no. Europe, they’re coming in from all parts of the world. Not just the Middle East, they’re coming in from the Congo, tremendous numbers of people coming from the Congo. And even worse, they’re coming from prisons of the Congo and many other countries. And for some reason, they want to be politically correct, which actually, I think is the opposite of politically correct. But they want to be politically correct, and they don’t want to send ’em back to where they came from.
And Europe is … uh, if you take a look at Paris, it’s a much different place. I loved Paris. Uh, it’s a much different place than it was. If you take a look at London, you have a mayor named Khan. He’s a horrible mayor. He’s an incompetent mayor, but he’s a horrible, vicious, disgusting mayor. I think he’s done a terrible job. London’s a different place. I love London. I love London. And I hate to see it happen. You know, my roots are in Europe, as you know.
Burns: Right. Right.
Trump: And … and I hate to see that happen. This is one of the great places in the world, and they’re allowing people just to come in and … unchecked, unvetted.
Burns: So how involved are you going to get? I mean, could we see you getting involved in European elections, for example?
Trump: I want to run the United States. I don’t want to run Europe. I’m involved in Europe very much. Uh …
Burns: Might you endorse candidates?
Trump: NATO calls me Daddy. I mean, I have a lot to say about it. Look, I raised, you know, GDP from 2 percent to 5 percent; the 2 percent they weren’t paying and the 5 percent they are paying. And they’re paying it because when we send things over, NATO pays for it, and I assume they give it to Ukraine. But, uh, Europe is being destroyed.
Burns: Would you consider getting involved in some of those elections to … to put in leaders that you think are better suited?
Trump: Well, I’d endorse … I’ve endorsed people, but I’ve endorsed people that a lot of Europeans don’t like. I’ve endorsed Viktor Orbán. I endorsed uh … go back to South America, Latin America … South America, uh, Milei, Argentina. He was losing in the election, and I endorsed him and he won in a landslide.
Burns: Yeah, with Viktor Orbán, uh, beyond endorsing, he recently said that you promised him access to U.S.-backed financial shield worth up to $20 billion. Is that … that right?
Trump: No, I didn’t promise him, but he certainly asked for it. But what I …
Burns: Would you consider giving that to him?
Trump: I just think he’s doing a very good job in a different sense on immigration. His country’s landlocked. You know, he’s got a different kind of a country. He doesn’t have the sea, so he can’t have ships coming in with energy. Uh, he’s got a big pipe coming in from Russia. They’ve had it for a long time. It’s a different situation he’s got.
Burns: So would you consider some financial …
Trump: But one thing he … one thing he has really …
Burns: … assistance there?
Trump: … he’s really gotten right is the immigration because he…he al … he allows nobody in his country. And Poland has done a very good job in that respect, too. But most European, uh, nations, uh, they’re … they’re decaying. They’re decaying.
Burns: You can imagine some leaders in Europe are a little freaked out by, uh, what …what, uh, your posture is, and, uh, European …
Trump: No, they should be freaked out by what they’re doing to their countries. They’re destroying their countries and they’re …
Burns: Well, European Council President …
Trump: And they’re people I like. Look, they’re people I like. I get along with ’em. You … you know that. But they can’t let this happen, and it gets to a point where you can’t really correct it. They’ll be a point, and it’s very close to that point …
Burns: And what will that mean?
Trump: It will mean that they’re no longer going to be strong nations or they’ll be …
Burns: Does that mean they … they won’t be allies anymore?
Trump: Or they’ll be uh … well, it depends. You know, it depends. They’ll change their ideology, obviously, because the people coming in have a totally different ideology. But uh, it’s uh … it’s gonna make them much weaker. They’ll be a much … they’ll be much weaker, and they’ll be much different.
Burns: What will that mean for our …
Trump: I mean, look at … look at …
Burns: … relationship with them?
Trump: … your mayor of London. He’s a disaster. He’s a disaster. He’s got a totally different ideology of what he’s supposed to have. And he gets elected because so many people have come in. They vote for him now because you know, it’s like … it’s uh, one of those things. But I hate what’s happened to London, and I hate what’s happened to Paris. I hate when I see it.
Burns: You know, sir, it’s sometimes hard to tell wh … when you say these things, do you intend to send kind of a message of … of tough love to our allies to push them to make reforms?
Trump: No. No.
Burns: Or do you think that many of them are just weak and … and you don’t really want to be allies with them?
Trump: I think they’re weak, but I also think that they want to be so politically correct. They don’t … I think they don’t know what to do. Europe doesn’t know what to do. They don’t know what to do on trade either. I mean, I look at a lot of the trade, you know, situation that’s going on over there. It’s a little bit dangerous. But … but Europe uh, they want to be politically correct, and it makes them weak. That’s what makes them weak.
Burns: It sounds like you want to see some pretty massive changes in Europe.
Trump: Well, I think they should get the people out that came into the country illegally.
Burns: I want to ask about NATO …
Trump: You know, if you take a look at Sweden, Sweden was known as the safest country in Europe …
Burns: Right.
Trump: … one of the safest countries in the world. Now it’s known as very unsafe … well, pretty unsafe country. It’s not even believable. It’s a whole different country, Sweden.
Burns: And Sweden most recently joined NATO. One of the things that y … the national security strategy says is that the U.S. should work toward ending the perception and preventing the reality of NATO as a perpetually expanding alliance. Are there countries in NATO that you think shouldn’t be in the alliance?
Trump: Well …
Burns: Sweden, for example.
Trump: … I mean, there are countries that are difficult for NATO. Not that they shouldn’t be. I think it’s good to have them. Turkey’s an example. Erdoğan is a friend of mine. Whenever they have a problem with Erdoğan, they ask me to call because they can’t speak to him. He’s a tough cookie. I actually like him a lot. I think, actually, you know, look, he’s built a strong country, strong military. But they have a hard time dealing with him, and they ask me to call him. And I do call him, and I always work it out with him. You know, he and I work it out right … really quickly. We had some people that he released that were taken and going through years and years of court cases and everything else. And I said, you know, you gotta release ’em and he did. He … he is uh, you know, very different than a lot of uh, the other leaders, but they have a hard time with him. But you know, they shouldn’t really have a hard time with him.
Burns: Should NATO stop accepting new members? Should NATO end where it is now?
Trump: Well, you know, there aren’t that many left when you get right down to it, right? There aren’t that many left. Uh, it was always, uh … I … I … long before Putin, uh, it was an understanding that Ukraine would not be going into NATO. This was long before Putin, in all fairness. And now they pushed … you know, when, uh, Zelenskyy first went in and first met Putin, he said I want two things. I want Crimea back and we’re gonna be a member of NATO. He didn’t say it in a very nice way either. You know, he’s … he’s a great salesman. I call him P.T. Barnum. You know who P.T. Barnum was, right?
Burns: I do.
Trump: One of the greatest on Earth. He could sell any product at any time. That was his expression, I can sell any product at any time. It was true. He said, doesn’t matter whether it works or not. Uh, but he’s P.T. Barnum, you know. He … he got, uh, crooked Joe Biden to give him $350 billion. And look what it got … got him. About 25 percent of his country is missing.
Burns: Uh …
Trump: And in all fairness to Biden, Obama gave away Crimea.
Burns: Right, that all happened in 2014.
Trump: Obama … Obama … because Crimea was the heart. You know, I’m a real estate person at heart, right? I’m very good at real estate. And when I looked o … wh … every time I look at that map, I say, oh, this Crimea’s so beautiful. Wow. It’s surrounded on four sides by ocean. It’s only got a little piece of land to get to … you know, to the main … well, the main. I mean, Crimea’s massive. But it connects the part of Ukraine that we talk about now …
Burns: Right.
Trump: … through a small, little jetty. It … it’s four sides of ocean in the warmest part. It’s got the best weather, best everything, and I know you are Ukrainian and you know Ukraine very well. And Obama forced them to give up Crimea. That was a d … I … I remember when it happened, but I wasn’t involved like I am now, you know, to the knowledge that I have now. I have great knowledge of Ukraine now. I have great knowledge of …
Burns: I mean, really …
Trump: … many countries.
Burns: … this … this conflict began back in 2014, people forget, long before, uh, the invasion of a few, uh, years ago.
Trump: Well, and you know when this conflict really began though? It was simmering for years, but, uh, when Obama gave up Crimea, that was a big thing.
Burns: I do want to ask, uh …
Trump: Do you agree with that? That was a big piece to give up.
Burns: Uh, I mean, that was …
Trump: You’re … you are of Ukrainian descent.
Burns: That was a major m … I mean, that was, I remember, you know, when I first moved to the United States, a lot of people didn’t know what Ukraine even was. And it was in 2014 that people suddenly started to realize how significant geopolitically that area really is.
Trump: No, I just … from the standpoint of beauty, weather, everything, Crimea is the warmest. It’s just got such great potential. And Obama forced them …Obama did this. This is not Biden. Well, maybe he was involved, but I doubt it. He probably didn’t know too much then either. He was never the brightest bulb. But you know, Obama gave away … he made them give it away.
Burns: Well, I do think your approach to Europe is … is so different than any of your predecessors. And … and this …
Trump: I just want to see a strong Europe.
Burns: And this national security strategy, I mean, says a lot about the changes that you want. Uh … uh, a crim …
Trump: No, but you … but you have to understand, here’s my approach to Europe: I want to see a strong Europe. When they allow millions of people to pour into their countries, many of these people are committing tremendous crimes. And again, look at Sweden. I’m not knocking Sweden. I love Sweden. I love the people of Sweden. But they go from a crime-free country to a country that has a lot of crime now. Look at Germany. Germany was crime-free, and Angela made two big mistakes; immigration and energy. But those two are beauties.
Burns: Well, one country that is pleased with … with the change in strategy from the United States, uh, is Russia. A Kremlin spokesperson called the strategy document a “positive step” and said the adjustments they’re seeing are “largely consistent with Moscow’s vision.” Do you think that’s a good thing?
Trump: Well, I think he’d like to see a … a weak Europe, and, uh, so you know, to be honest with you, uh, he’s getting that. That has nothing to do with me.
Burns: But he thinks the changes that you’re making and what you laid out in your vision for Europe is … is what … what Moscow wants to see.
Trump: I have no vision for Europe. All I want to see is a strong Europe. Look, I have a vision for the United States of America first. It’s “Make America Great Again.” Uh, I do explain to Europe ’cause I think, you know, I’m supposed to be a very smart person, I can … I have eyes. I have ears. I have, uh, knowledge. I have vast knowledge. I see what’s happening. I get reports that you will never see. And I think it’s horrible what’s happening to Europe. I think it’s endangering Europe as we know it. Europe could be a whole different place.
Burns: Your impact …
Trump: And I think the European people should do something about it.
Burns: Your impact does stretch far beyond Europe. I want to talk about another area where you’re making your mark, which is in Venezuela. You’ve said that Nicolás Maduro’s days are numbered and that the U.S. could soon strike Venezuelan territory. Could we see American troops on the ground in Venezuela?
Trump: I don’t comment on that. I wouldn’t say that one way or the other. I can say this, that, uh, he sent us millions of people, many from prisons, many drug dealers, drug lords, uh, mental institution … people in mental institutions. He sent them into our country, where we have a … where we had a very stupid president. You know that. Bi … Biden’s a low-IQ person, especially nowadays. I mean, he was low-IQ 30 years ago, but he’s especially low-IQ now. And, uh, what he did to our country is not good. Tren de Aragua, the gangs, one of the meanest gangs in the world.
Burns: Well, you … you’ve locked down the … the … the border now.
Trump: No, no, he sent a lot of these people. He also sends in a lot of drugs. So we’ll see how it all works out. But I can’t …
Burns: So do you want to …
Trump: … talk about strategy.
Burns: So how far would you go to … to take Maduro out of office?
Trump: I don’t want to say that. But, uh …
Burns: But you want to see him out?
Trump: His days are numbered.
Burns: Can you rule out an American ground invasion …
Trump: I don’t want to …
Burns: … in Venezuela?
Trump: … rule in or out. I don’t talk about it. Why would I talk to you, an extremely unfriendly publication, if you want to call it POLITICO, that got $8 million from Obama to keep it afloat, why would I do that? (Editor’s note: Trump appears to be referring to POLITICO Pro subscriptions that the Trump administration canceled earlier this year as part of the Department of Government Efficiency’s effort to trim government spending. POLITICO received no government grants or subsidies.) Why would I talk about that to POLITICO? I mean, I’m doing this because you picked me as the man for Europe …
Burns: Well, I’m … I’m … I’m asking for …
Trump: … and I thought it was … I thought it was …
Burns: … for … for transparency for the …
Trump: … an appropriate thing to do.
Burns: … American people because a of folks are …
Trump: Transparency?
Burns: Well, people are wondering what is …
Trump: I’ll tell you, I am the most transparent politician maybe in the world, OK?
Burns: A lot of folks are wondering what our goals are in Venezuela.
Trump: Sure, but I don’t want to … I don’t want to talk to you about military strategy.
Burns: Well, may I ask then, what … what is your goal in Venezuela? What do you want to see with the actions that you’re taking?
Trump: Well, one goal is I want the people of Venezuela to be treated well. I want the people of Venezuela, many of whom live in the United States, to be respected. I mean, they were tremendous to me. They voted for me 94 percent or something. I mean, it’s incredible. I own a big, uh, project, Doral. It’s a great place, Doral Country Club.
Burns: Been there.
Trump: Yeah. And it’s a, you know, very large, uh, place, beautiful place, right in the middle of they call it Little Venezuela. And I got to know the Venezuelan people very well because, uh, that I’ve owned it for a long time. And they’re unbelievable people. The area is such a successful area. Everybody is successful. It’s amazing. They say if a house is for sale for more than three days, there’s something wrong. I mean, a house … if somebody wants to sell their house, they sell it in just a matter of moments. People love the area. And I got to know the people well. They’re incredible people. And they were treated horribly by Maduro.
Burns: And are those the kind of immigrants that you do want to see in America?
Trump: Uh, well, they … well, they certainly contrib … yeah, I want to see people … yeah, I want to see people that contribute. I don’t want to see Somalia. I don’t want to see a woman that, you know, marries her brother to get in and then becomes a congressman and does nothing but complain. All she does is complain, complain, complain, and yet her country’s a mess. You know, it’s, uh, one of the worst in the world. Uh, let her go back, fix up her own country.
Burns: Uh, I …
Trump: So …
Burns: … yeah.
Trump: No, Somalia … and I was right about it. You know, I started complaining about Somalia long before the scandal. Uh, the … the horrible … the horrible things they’re doing to Minnesota, it’s incredible. They have an incompetent governor there, too. The democrats are running some bad ships.
Burns: Speaking of ships, I do want to talk about the boat strikes. The defense secretary, should he testify, Pete Hegseth, under oath before Congress about that controversial second strike on the alleged drug boat on October … on Sept. 2?
Trump: I don’t care if he does. He can if he wants. I don’t care. You know, let …
Burns: Do you think he should?
Trump: I don’t care. I would say do it if you want, Pete.
Burns: Have you …
Trump: He’s doing a great job. Uh …
Burns: Have you watched the video …
Trump: … he was stopping … uh, I watch everything, yeah. I watch everything. I see a lot of things. Um …
Burns: And do you believe that that second …
Trump: … it’s not pretty but … but …
Burns: … strike was necessary?
Trump: Uh, well, it looked like they were trying to turn back over the boat, but I don’t get involved in that. That’s up to them. Uh, the admiral that did that was … is a highly respected … as you know, a highly respected man. And we save 25,000 people every time we knock out a boat. On average, they kill 25,000 Americans so you know, I don’t like doing that, but the, uh, the drugs coming in through the sea are down to … they’re down by 92 percent. And I’m trying to figure out the 8 percent, who are they? Nobody wants to drive boats to America loaded up with drugs anymore.
Burns: Well, I do want to ask because …
Trump: And we’re gonna hit ’em on land very soon, too.
Burns: … almost all the illicit fent … fentanyl in the United States is actually produced in Mexico using precursor chemicals from China, according to the DEA. And Venezuela isn’t a significant source or transit country for fentanyl. It barely appears on the DEA’s trafficking assessments.
Trump: Yeah, well, they do send lots of drugs. Those boats come in largely from Venezuela so I would say that’s a significant … and you can see the drugs. You can see these bags all over the boat, I mean, just bags and bags and bags.
Burns: So if it’s about drugs, would you consider …
Trump: But … but let me tell you what they do do. They send really, really bad people into our country, and they’ve done it better than anybody else. They emptied their prisons into our country, and these prisoners are seriously tough. They entered … uh, all of their prisons have been emptied into the United States of America. Murderers, 11,888 murderers …
Burns: So is this about making sure Maduro sees justice …
Trump: Well, wait a minute.
Burns: … then?
Trump: Eleven thousand eight hundred and eighty-eight murderers were entered into our country, and stupid Joe took all those people. And now we’re getting them out. We’re finding ’em. We found a lot of ’em and we’re getting them out or we’re putting them in jail. Some are so dangerous and so bad that we don’t want to put them back to their country ’cause they’ll find a way to get back in. But these are stone-cold murderers. But every time we knock out a boat, we save 25,000 American lives.
Burns: So would you consider doing something similar wi … with Mexico and Colombia that are even more responsible for fentanyl trafficking into the U.S.?
Trump: Yeah, I would. Sure. I would.
Burns: You pardoned former Honduran president Juan Orlando Hernández and let him out of prison even though he was convicted in a massive international drug trafficking scheme. How is that zero tolerance on drug trafficking if …
Trump: Well, I don’t know him. And I know very little about him other than people said it was like, uh, an Obama/Biden type setup, where he was set up. He was the president of the country. The country, uh, deals in drugs, like probably you could say that about every country, and because he was the president, they gave him like 45 years in prison. And there are many people fighting for Honduras, very good people that I know. And they think he was treated horribly, and they asked me to do it, and I said I’ll do it.
Burns: Do you think that could send the wrong message to …
Trump: No, I don’t think so.
Burns: … drug dealers?
Trump: Look, I think, uh, you know, when you weaponize government … uh, they’ve weaponized their government just like they did over here. I’m one of the people that survived. But they weaponize the government. We had the most weaponized government. Our … our election was rigged. They went after me. I was impeached twice. I was indicted. They indicted me. I came out good. Here we are in the White House. Things are looking nice. But they were vicious, uh, and they, uh … they are vicious. They’re sick people.
Burns: We’ve talked a lot about foreign policy. You’ve spent a ton of your first year focused on those conflicts around the world. And that has led to some concerns, even from your own supporters, that there hasn’t been enough focus on some of the issues here at home. I know that this week you’re going back out on … on the trail, um, giving me flashbacks of … of covering your rallies here. Um, you’re hitting the road to talk about the economy. I wonder, sir, what grade would you give your economy right now?
Trump: Before I answer that, let me just tell you something. I’ve watched stupid people like Marjorie Traitor Greene, or some people call her Taylor Greene. Some people call her Taylor Brown because green sometimes turns to brown, which isn’t nice. But I’ve watched her say that he spends too much time on foreign. Well, by doing that … first of all, it doesn’t take a lot of time. Uh, I made one trip. I brought back trillions of dollars on that one trip. I stopped in Japan. I stopped in South Korea. I met with President Xi and ended what could’ve been a big …
Burns: You went to the Middle East.
Trump: … problem.
Burns: I was on that trip with you. Uh-huh.
Trump: Went to the Middle East. I brought back, uh, $3 trillion from the Middle East. I sold many Boeing airplanes on that trip, like 300. Uh, when I go on a trip, I only have one place in mind; it’s the United States. So when, you know, people with low IQs, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, she’s a low IQ person … when she says it’s too … but she was a loyal person until I wasn’t able to answer her phone calls ’cause I’m just too busy to answer people’s phone calls. You can’t call me three times a day. And it’s just, you know, not appropriate when I have, you know, over 200 congressmen, 53 senators, 212 countries, you know, all of these people are calling, and a family. Actually, the family suffers. It’s harder for me to call back the family. Uh, but when you think of what I’ve done, remember, uh, rare earth and the problem with magnets and all of these things that was gonna shut down the whole world? I worked it out with President Xi and we have a good relationship. I worked it out with President Xi very favorable …
Burns: Well, so that does …
Trump: … to the United States.
Burns: … does come back to the economy here in the U.S.
Trump: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Burns: Right?
Trump: You … you made a statement, though, that I devote too much time to outside of the United States. Uh, I’ve made a fortune for the United States by focusing on things outside.
Burns: And to be clear, that’s not my statement. That’s just what some … some of your supporters and some others have said.
Trump: Well, then, you know, I can’t imagine they’re supporters because, uh, I made a fortune and spend very little time … all of my time is spent here. Most of my time is spent here. But when I do go outside, it’s only going outside for here. For instance, settling and solving the problem with China, that has a huge effect in the United States. Making deals with Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, all of these countries, you’re talking about trillions and trillions of dollars. So I could … I guess I could say let’s not deal with anybody. We wouldn’t have much of a country.
Burns: Well, so then, sir …
Trump: We … we wouldn’t have much of an economy. We make a lot of money with these countries. Now in the past, these countries all ripped us off. If you go back, uh, during Biden, if you go back, uh, during Obama, they were ripping us off like nobody’s … no country’s ever been ripped off. That’s why we owe $38 trillion. I mean, we owe it for a reason. But just remember, uh, when I had … when we had a problem with China very recently, I was able to work that out. You don’t work that out by not talking to people, by, you know, not answering. With the magnets, with the rare earth, it was a big problem.
Burns: And y … and you’re looking to have impact here back home so …
Trump: Well, no, no. Impact? We would’ve been shut down. China would’ve been shut down. The whole world would’ve been shut down.
Burns: So sir …
Trump: So … wait a minute. So some people would say don’t focus on anything outside of our border. I like that, too. But I’ve made trillions and trillions of dollars and solved problems and solved wars. Do you know most of the wars that I solved were solved sitting behind the Oval Office desk on a telephone? I think that those are worthy phone calls. Even if they didn’t impact us to save millions of lives from another country and if I can do that easily because I have that ability are pretty good.
Burns: But … but I do want to talk about the economy, sir, here at home. And … and I wonder what grade you would give your economy.
Trump: A-plus.
Burns: A-plus?
Trump: Yeah, A-plus-plus-plus-plus-plus.
Burns: Well, it’s interesting because I … I talked to a supporter of yours. Her name is Melanie from Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania. And she loves you. She gave you overall an A-plus-plus grade. But here’s what she said about the economy. She said, “Groceries, utility, insurance, and the basic cost of running small business keep rising faster than wages.” She also says that not enough is being done. Mr. President, this is one of your supporters.
Trump: Okay. Good. And I’m … I love her because you said I got an A-plus on everything, I guess. I don’t know. But here … here’s …
Burns: But she’s still worried about the economy. Yeah.
Trump: No, no, but … but what you have to understand, the word affordability … I inherited a mess. I inherited a total mess. Prices were at an all-time high when I came in. Prices are coming down substantially. Look at energy. You and I discussed before the interview, energy … energy has come down incredibly. When energy comes down, everything … ’cause it’s so much bigger than any other subject. But energy has come down incredibly. Prices are all coming down. It’s been 10 months. It’s amazing what we’ve done. If you think of gasoline a gallon, they had it at $4.50, almost $5.00. You go to some of the states, you had it at $6.00. We hit, uh, three states two days ago, $1.99 a gallon. When that happens, everything comes down. Now everything is coming down. Uh, with beef, I’ve just opened that up where beef is gonna start coming down pretty substantially.
Burns: Would you consider more carveouts on other goods that Americans find too expensive?
Trump: Well, some carveouts, you mean from tariffs?
Burns: From tariffs, yeah.
Trump: Yeah. Yeah.
Burns: Like coffee, like bananas.
Trump: Yeah. Sure. And I’ve done that already …
Burns: Beef.
Trump: … with coffee. Uh, they’re very small carveouts. It’s not a big deal. But let me tell you about the real economy. We’ve got $18 trillion coming into our country. Biden had less than a trillion for four years, and he was heading south. Our country was falling apart. Eighteen trillion … because of tariffs, $18 trillion is coming into our country. I think because of tariffs and November 5 election, if you want to know the truth, but …
Burns: So would you rule out reducing tariffs on any more goods?
Trump: On some. And on some I’ll increase tariffs. Because you know what happens is because of tariffs, all of the car companies are coming back. You know, we lost 58 percent of the automobile business. We had a … we had a monopoly in the world. We had everything. And because we had presidents that either weren’t smart or didn’t have business sense or their people didn’t do a good job … they could’ve kept that. We could’ve kept the chip market. We had 100 percent of the chip market, Intel, all of these guys. You know, there’s the thing. They came in to see me, Intel. They needed something to be done by the government. I said, I’m gonna do it, but I think you have to give us 10 percent of your company. You know what happened? We made $40 billion on that deal. The price went through the roof. The United States … in about 10 minutes, I made $40 billion. Nobody talks about that.
Burns: I want to ask about interest rates because a lot of Americans agree with you that they’re too high. You’re going to pick a new Fed chair soon. Is it a litmus test that the new chair lower interest rates immediately?
Trump: Yes. Well, this guy too … should too. But I think he’s a combination of not a smart person and doesn’t like Trump. But the reason he doesn’t like Trump …
Burns: So you’ve spoken with your potential …
Trump: Well, the reason he doesn’t like Trump is because I hit him hard because he’s doing a bad job. Interest rates …
Burns: So you’ve talked to your potential candidates …
Trump: We’re fighting through interest rates. Look, he’s a negative, but this country is doing so well. Again, we have $18 trillion being invested. Car companies are moving back that left us years ago. AI is coming in at levels never seen before. Factories are opening up all over the country; $18 trillion of investment in the United States. Again, with Biden, we would’ve lost $10 trillion, okay? Eighteen, that’s a record. You know what’s the second record? China. China had $2 trillion. That’s a lot, $2 trill … we have $18 trillion, and that ultimately … you know what it reduces itself to? Jobs. You’re gonna have jobs like you’ve never seen in the United States.
Burns: Before I … I let you go …
Trump: And by the way … and prices are coming down. Just … you talk about affordability, the Democrats love to say affordability, afford … but then they never talk about it. They’re the ones that gave us the high prices. I’m the one that’s bringing them down.
Burns: Well, one of the biggest issues on affordability right now is health care, and Obamacare subsidies are set to expire in a couple of weeks, which will lead to higher prices for millions of Americans. I do wonder, Mr. President …
Trump: But you said the word, Obamacare. Obamacare …
Burns: Correct.
Trump: … was conceived by Barack Hussein Obama, who know … knew nothing about health care.
Burns: But we’re in the situation we’re in now where, uh, those subsidies will expire, so I wonder, is letting those subsidies expire acceptable to you, and should Americans …
Trump: What I want on health care is very simple. Uh, Obamacare was set up for insurance companies to become rich, OK? That was why they … in my opinion, I think the Democrats did it for that reason. Do you know that insurance company stocks have gone up 16, 17, 1,800 percent over a short period of time? They … they’ve been paid trillions, trill … not billions, trillions of dollars, and what I’m saying is very simple. I don’t want to pay ’em anything. No money for the insurance companies. Sorry, fellas. I know ’em all. No money for the insurance companies. I want to pay the money directly to the people and let the people get their own health care.
Burns: Well, Congress hasn’t put that on the floor yet.
Trump: But you know who’s fighting me on that?
Burns: Who?
Trump: The Democrats.
Burns: But in the meantime, I mean, two weeks, Mr. President, people will see those premiums go up. So will you tell Congress to extend those Obamacare subsidies while you work out another deal?
Trump: I don’t know. I’m gonna have to see. I’d like to get better health care. I’d like to have people, uh, buy their own health care, get much better health care, and, uh, what I want to do, for example, I want to give the money to the people not to the insurance companies.
Burns: So right now, people are buying their holiday presidents … presents. They’re planning for …
Trump: Look, don’t be dramatic.
Burns: No, no.
Trump: Don’t be dramatic.
Burns: Uh, they’re … they’re planning their budgets …
Trump: Here … here’s what I want to …
Burns: … for next year, Mr. President.
Trump: Here’s what I want to … I know. And what I want to do is help them.
Burns: So will their premiums go up?
Trump: I want to give … I’m giving them money. I want to give the money to the people to buy their own health care. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing. The Democrats don’t want to do that. They want the insurance companies to continue to make a fortune. The Democrats are owned by the insurance companies. They want the insurance companies to get these trillions of dollars. We spent … we spend trillions of dollars goes to the insurance companies. I want that money to go to the people and let the people go out and buy their own health care. It works like magic. But you know who doesn’t want it? The Democrats, because they’re corrupt people because they’re totally owned and bought by the insurance companies.
Burns: So at this point, most likely premiums will go up and … and you will find another …
Trump: Uh, well …
Burns: … plan?
Trump: … your premiums could go down if you did what I want to do. I want to give the money …
Burns: That’s going to take time, sir.
Trump: Ready? I want to give … I want to give the people better health insurance for less money. The people will get the money and they’re gonna buy the health insurance that they want.
Burns: I want to talk about one last really important issue to …
Trump: You know that works really well, right? And you know the Democrats don’t want to do it because they want the insurance companies to make all the money.
Burns: Immigration, sir, critical to your agenda. I want to ask, uh, about what, uh, the Pope has said, which is he has called your immigration actions inhumane. Do you take that seriously from the Pope?
Trump: I haven’t seen that. I mean … I mean, he … maybe he has. I mean, he also didn’t like the wall. You know, they didn’t like the wall. The wall turned out to be great.
Burns: Do you plan to meet or speak with him?
Trump: You know, I built a wall that, uh, stopped people from flooding into … we … I didn’t put up the wall. I built the wall. The wall, nobody talks about that. You know, it’s interesting, uh, two years ago, a year ago under Biden, this country was out of control; millions of people pouring through totally unchecked, totally unvetted. And now we have nobody coming in. We have them coming in only legally. They have to go through a legal process. Nobody ever talks about that anymore. They should talk about that. But I haven’t heard any statements from the Pope. I’m sure he’s a lovely man. His brother’s a lovely man. You know, his brother …
Burns: Yeah, you’ve spoken to him.
Trump: Do you know his brother is serious MAGA? Lives in Florida. He’s like …
Burns: So will you meet with the other brother, with the Pope?
Trump: I already met with the brother. He came to …
Burns: But with the … with the Pope, will you meet with him or speak with him?
Trump: Sure, I will. Why not?
Burns: Um, I … I have one more question on immigration. Uh, the Supreme Court is going to hear a case that could redefine who is here legally …
Trump: Yeah.
Burns: … in the … in the United States. I’m talking about the birthright citizenship case.
Trump: Yeah.
Burns: If the court sides with you and ends birthright citizenship, are you going to try to take away citizenship from people who already have it here?
Trump: I … honestly, I haven’t thought of that, but I will tell you this, the case is very interesting because that case was meant for the babies of slaves. And if you look at the dates on the case, it was exactly having to do with the Civil War. That case was not meant from some rich person coming from another country, dropping … putting a foot in our country, and all of a sudden their whole family becomes, you know, United States citizens. That case is all about slaves, the babies of slaves, and it was a good reason for doing it. And that’s all it was about, and people now are understanding it. It’s been explained to ’em. And I think the court understands it, too. That would be a devastating decision if we lose that case.
Burns: That court you’ve put three …
Trump: Because our country cannot afford to house tens of millions of people that came in through birthright citizenship. When that happened, that was meant for the … the babies of slaves, and if you look at the exact dates that it was passed, it all had to do with the Civil War and the ending of the Civil War. It’s that little period of time, and people now are starting to understand that.
Burns: Do you want to see one of the justices on the Supreme Court retire so you can put in one more before the end of your term?
Trump: Well, the Democrats want to …
Burns: I mean …
Trump: … flood the court. You know the …
Burns: Clarence Thomas is 77.
Trump: Yeah.
Burns: Samuel Alito is 75. Do you want one more on there?
Trump: Uh, well, I hope they stay ’cause I think they’re fantastic, OK? Both of those men are fantastic.
Burns: Before I let you go, I want to ask …
Trump: I will say this, the Democrats want to pack the court. They want to have 21 justices. That would be a … a terrible thing for this country.
Burns: The future of the Republican Party, look, I watched you, uh, on all of your campaigns pull together, especially in this last one, an unprecedented coalition to win the presidency. You brought in so many new voters to the Republican Party. You chipped away at some of the core bases of the Democratic Party. Is there anyone else in the GOP that can energize the coalition the way you did?
Trump: I hope so. I don’t know. You never know until they’re tested. You know, it’s like, uh, you jump in the water; you can swim or you can’t. Some people can swim and some people can’t. You never know. You have to see. I think we have a very good bench. I must … we have a lot of good people. We have a great Cabinet. I have a really great Cabinet — better than my first Cabinet. I had some very good people in my first cabinet, but this cabinet, you know, I have much more experience. When I first came to Washington, it was interesting. I didn’t know anything about any of the people. I was in a different … I was a very successful guy from New York City, real estate and … and other things. I mean, I had a great show and enter … a lot of things but basically real estate. And by the way, I’m fixing up the White House, making it beautiful. I’m doing a great ballroom that they’ve tried to do for 150 years and all of that stuff.
But you never know. Your question’s such an interesting question. You never really know until they get tested. I hope so.
Burns: Mr. President, thank you so much …
Trump: Thank you.
Burns: … for joining the conversation. I really appreciate your time.
Trump: Thank you very much.
Burns: Thank you.
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